Which country should I start with to get the highest quality army? (2024)

I know that there are lots of threads over the web about this, but they're mostly outdated.
So my question is: which faction in your opinion and what path (like religion or forming nations) should I choose to create the highest quality army?

Quantity bonus are not to be considered (like force limit of manpower).
Only bonuses to be considered are:
combat ability bonuses,
discipline,
fire or shock damage/received
Army tradition bonuses and general pips
Movement speed

Preferably I'd pick a nation in Europe and the smaller the better, but please feel free to suggest whatever nation you think can create the pound per pound strongest army.

Picking TO and forming Prussia seems an obvious choice, given the prussian monarchy discipline bonus coupled with Prussia NI.
But I was wondering if there was a better path , like Picking Poland or Sweden and forming Prussia taking missions or events that might give certain permanent bonuses.

st360 said:

These days there are a lot monuments, not to even mention missions that give permanent +combat bonuses. Unless somebody did a honest hardworking study, you wont be able to know just by national ideas.

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Tbh I have all DLC except leviathan, as a matter of preference I think the features in that DLC look too much overpowered.

I was wondering if Polish cavalry with +93 combat ability (33% NI, + 20 from Quality & Aristocratic + 10 from policy and +20 from Cossack estate) would outperform
Prussian infantry with 40% CA, assuming I can form Prussia as Poland and keep Polish ideas while also getting the Prussian monarchy

Terixis said:

Prussia that flips to Zoroastrian should be the strongest because Militarization and Baku Ateshgah are silly.

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Don't you lose the effects of the Prussian Monarchy if you no longer meet the religion requirements?

Republic of Mercury said:

Don't you lose the effects of the Prussian Monarchy if you no longer meet the religion requirements?

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Yeah you're right, I'm dumb. It should still be Prussia either way though since it can get 5% morale and 2.5% discipline from Protestant or 10% morale from reformed on top of its ideas and militarization.

byebytoad said:

I was wondering if Polish cavalry with +93 combat ability (33% NI, + 20 from Quality & Aristocratic + 10 from policy and +20 from Cossack estate) would outperform
Prussian infantry with 40% CA, assuming I can form Prussia as Poland and keep Polish ideas while also getting the Prussian monarchy

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If you are fine with tag switching go Sweden or something wait for the op events then tag switch to Prussia.

If you wanna jump through even more loops start as songhai and do the mission tree before forming Prussia and eventually switch culture to jurchen/manchu for banners.

Could probablly do even more crazy stuff if you are willing to tag switch multiple times.

Jiben said:

If you are fine with tag switching go Sweden or something wait for the op events then tag switch to Prussia.

If you wanna jump through even more loops start as songhai and do the mission tree before forming Prussia and eventually switch culture to jurchen/manchu for banners.

Could probablly do even more crazy stuff if you are willing to tag switch multiple times.

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What op events are you referring to?
I'm available to switch tag, but just once and on a switch that's not too crazy. Sweden -> Prussia ok, Poland -> Prussia ok. Songhai to Prussia is too overstreched.

byebytoad said:

Tbh I have all DLC except leviathan, as a matter of preference I think the features in that DLC look too much overpowered.

I was wondering if Polish cavalry with +93 combat ability (33% NI, + 20 from Quality & Aristocratic + 10 from policy and +20 from Cossack estate) would outperform
Prussian infantry with 40% CA, assuming I can form Prussia as Poland and keep Polish ideas while also getting the Prussian monarchy

Click to expand...

See Also

[Top 10] Europa Universalis IV Best Nations That Are Powerful

Im not trying to be a smartass, but if you will allow estate loyality bonuses, you mind as well allow discipline and morale military advisors, changing religions, and considering special unit only armies, like Manchu banners.

st360 said:

Im not trying to be a smartass, but if you will allow estate loyality bonuses, you mind as well allow discipline and morale military advisors, changing religions, and considering special unit only armies, like Manchu banners.

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I always use discipline military advisors.
Changing religions is no problem for me.

I love special units but usually, they're limited in numbers so not sure how much difference they can make.

If you are purely looking for army quality then starting as Orleans might be the only option
as thats the only way to ge the Joan modifier for extra bonuses.
For wonders Baku is the only one with direct bonuses but Zoro itself has none so there might be another combination
of religion and country that gets more.

Other than that you'll have to comb through

and the game files for verification to see what needs to be formed when to farm other buffs.

iClipse said:

I'm guessing a Poland who converts to Zoroastrianism is up there with the best. They have one of the most underrated idea sets in the game, militarywise.

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Why Zoroastrianism? I checked on the eu4wiki and I don't see any military type benefit coming from this religion

byebytoad said:

Why Zoroastrianism? I checked on the eu4wiki and I don't see any military type benefit coming from this religion

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The Baku Atagesh wonder, which has become a meme; according to many, all you need for world domination is to become a Zoroastrian, take over Baku and build the wonder and your armies will be invincible. at full build it gives +10% Discipline, -10% Fire damage taken, +5% Fire damage dealt. So it is strong, but only really in limited circ*mstances outside of certain starts (since you need to be to become Zoroastrian outside of custom nations) and the religion (and wonder) has NO other military bonuses. And if you're able to really make use of it given the time and resources spent to get to Tier 3, you probably don't need it anymore. Not if you're surviving as a Zoroastrian in that area.

Darsara said:

The Baku Atagesh wonder, which has become a meme; according to many, all you need for world domination is to become a Zoroastrian, take over Baku and build the wonder and your armies will be invincible. at full build it gives +10% Discipline, -10% Fire damage taken, +5% Fire damage dealt. So it is strong, but only really in limited circ*mstances outside of certain starts (since you need to be to become Zoroastrian outside of custom nations) and the religion (and wonder) has NO other military bonuses. And if you're able to really make use of it given the time and resources spent to get to Tier 3, you probably don't need it anymore. Not if you're surviving as a Zoroastrian in that area.

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You should consider the thread you're in. OP specifically asked about army quality, which is what I answered. Obviously, a strong army is not something you need for world domination. Heck, you can do it without taking a single military idea. Still, that's not what this thread is about.

Purely religiouswise, Zoroastrianism is probably the strongest religion because of said monument. That, or religions that are tied to the Prussian Monarchy mechanics. Then it's searching for best starting nations regarding military ideas and you have an easy answer. The most correct one would result in searching for all permanent modifiers through mission trees and forming Morocco and Dai Viet (and others) in between for their permanent discipline. But how useful is that in the end?

iClipse said:

You should consider the thread you're in. OP specifically asked about army quality, which is what I answered. Obviously, a strong army is not something you need for world domination. Heck, you can do it without taking a single military idea. Still, that's not what this thread is about.

Purely religiouswise, Zoroastrianism is probably the strongest religion because of said monument. That, or religions that are tied to the Prussian Monarchy mechanics. Then it's searching for best starting nations regarding military ideas and you have an easy answer. The most correct one would result in searching for all permanent modifiers through mission trees and forming Morocco and Dai Viet (and others) in between for their permanent discipline. But how useful is that in the end?

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Incidentally, the Zulu tribe government has no religion-requirement, so I guess Zoroastrian Zulus have the strongest military.